Our paradigm exist in our minds. My “recovered” Catholic friends are still looking for a pope somewhere. I remember hearing a Wiccan talking about what “ the goddess wants me to do” and thinking that it sounded no different than the Xianity I grew up with.
People get legalistic about who ought to be able to ride a bicycle, why and where. I was once lectured because I the organ in stocking feet, making it easier to slip across the pedals. It’s everywhere.
Making the paradigm shift in my own mind was critical to my own healing. Having said that, I don’t think that bi-nary thinking ever quite goes away. It’s just that now I have any number of doors to help me escape it.
EXACTLY...this is my work on my substack and YT...to help people see that it is the hidden cultural stories that have programmed our unconscious DNA to perpetuate these patterns of patriarchy no matter where we go. Learning the hidden ways patriarchy has programmed itself into our thinking minds helps us actually escape the patriarchal thinking and open up to an entire NEW way of being in the world. My easiest example I share is start putting women first. Instead of men and women, use women and men, sisters and brothers. think about all it is saying to our unconscious minds and bodies when men are always first. when things are always written in the "he" for both genders, etc.
Care to expound? Or direct me to where you already have written it? I can't guarantee I'll personally engage with deep apologetics because of my own trauma activation if we get too far in the weeds, but I'd love to hear at least some high-level points about the subtleties you think apply here. Nuance is always welcome.
I had originally expounded in the comment, then deleted that section because I didn’t want to “mansplain” if you were already familiar with it.
Basically, the pre/post fallacy is that in any form of growth, one cannot clearly perceive the next level, so tend to mistake progress for regress on the one hand, or believe yourself to have skipped a level on the other.
In terms of left and right thinking, Lawrence Kohlberg’s levels of morality are useful, where he describes pre-conventional, conventional and post-conventional forms of morality.
The conservative right, politically, has tended to be conventional. You follow the rules, you don’t question them. You do your duty etc.
The left, is often an unhealthy mix of the pre- and post-conventional. Wilber describes both being present in anti-Vietnam war rallies in the 70s.
There were those who had a pre-conventional “f you I won’t do what you tell me” mentality, who were protesting because they rejected all obligations, and those whose previous commitment to conventional morality had been strained by what they’d seen and were questioning the legitimacy of the war and its objectives, the post-conventional.
The fallacy says that the conventional, being unable to comprehend the post-conventional, mistakes it for pre-conventional, “anarchism” say, instead of the legitimate questioning that it is. This is why the right traditionally fears that the left is going to undo society.
The thing is, the right is correct about some of those on the left, since the left usually contains some pre-conventional elements (which might be reasonably be described as left-fundamentalists), among mainly post-conventional folks. And, since both may have quite similar behaviours or use of language, the pre-conventional folks can believe they are post-conventional, without having passed through the necessary “conventional” step, but don’t understand that the post-conventional folks have a different understanding and motivation to themselves.
Ironically, the recent rise of the alt-right has resulted in right-wing parties regressing to a pre-conventional morality, and thus becoming the very thing that they had always been afraid that the left was.
I hope some of this makes sense.
It’s very subtle, and Ken Wilber’s “Sex, Ecology, Spirituality” describes this much better than I have.
It is a conundrum, but my only answer currently is “How does any position or belief reflect thought, compassion, and respectful curiosity? How does it fit into the directive to love one another?”
Thank you. After reading this I feel my brain starting to unfreeze from its post election overload of conflicting information and regain the desire to try to work through the tangled mess of grey nuance to find something solid
This is a really helpful framing and analysis of something I’ve wrestled with too. I’ve been on a similar journey, trying to spot the the old fundamentalist conditioning in myself so that I don’t get too attached to dogma-of-a-different-stripe (which is why I have the line from the Mary Oliver poem you referenced tattooed on my arm).
Also TIA -- wanted to let you know I am cross posting this piece on Jan 6th I believe it is. Wanted to support some other women as I take a break from writing to focus on my YT series that will be launching in the new year!
Wow - this was lot to sort through and make sense of. I appreciate your work on this. I woke up in 2012 to my tradwife ways...but it was way before I knew about deconstruction as it exists today. I woke up because I found a book - the Creation of patriarchy by Gerda Lerner -- that showed me WHY This shizta stuff is soooo deeply entrenched in us.
I thougth Obama was the anti-christ in 2008. In 2012 I voted for him.
However, and maybe it was becasue I was in Cali then and things are on the extreme LEFT over there, I found so much hate, anger, intolerance and more in the Left that I could not stay. I took 12 years off practicing what I called Consious Apathy before reingaging this year thanks to Project 2025 kicking me out of retirement from politics. That being said, I still had and still have much to deconstruct when it comes to politics. I just learned this Aug/Sept that Reganomics is a farse...and the facts to prove it. I felt inspired and a sense of hope as I watched Harris/Walz -- felt they were the new face of the party...one I would absolutely embrace. Yet, I still felt "dirty" voting for a Democrat and I could not pledge my allegiance to that side. Afer the election, I was disheartened when many of my YTers started to step out of the voice/tone they held in the months leading up to the eleciton and back into the voice/tone that drove me quickly away 12 years before.
I share all of this because I absolutely get what you are saying here. The fundi left is not as well centrally organized as the fundi right and therefore could most likely not present the same idealogical threat.
However, I know I am not alone in being fed up with the 2 party system...and with the debates of this is the Left, this is the Right. And I cannot help but think this piece is missing somehow from the conversaiton.
For me, and how I have trained myself to see everything from my understanding of patriarchy based on Gerda's work (which I will be diving into an ongoing series on my YT come next year) -- I think the bigger conversation to have is just that: how do we deconstruct all of patriarchy -- including the 2 party system that serves no one but the elites?
I don’t think it’s helpful to fall into the “it’s the same on both sides” as a defense - it only leads to trying to defend ourselves by comparison.
And, I find myself in some social circles being afraid to share my disagreement with, say DEI, for fear of being cancelled, as I am in other groups, to share that I don’t think that drinking alcohol is a sin.
I think the “fear of being cancelled” is quite similar to the “fear of being excommunicated”.
I am still working on the courage to overcome both fears.
Our paradigm exist in our minds. My “recovered” Catholic friends are still looking for a pope somewhere. I remember hearing a Wiccan talking about what “ the goddess wants me to do” and thinking that it sounded no different than the Xianity I grew up with.
People get legalistic about who ought to be able to ride a bicycle, why and where. I was once lectured because I the organ in stocking feet, making it easier to slip across the pedals. It’s everywhere.
Making the paradigm shift in my own mind was critical to my own healing. Having said that, I don’t think that bi-nary thinking ever quite goes away. It’s just that now I have any number of doors to help me escape it.
I love that! "any number of doors to help me escape it."
EXACTLY...this is my work on my substack and YT...to help people see that it is the hidden cultural stories that have programmed our unconscious DNA to perpetuate these patterns of patriarchy no matter where we go. Learning the hidden ways patriarchy has programmed itself into our thinking minds helps us actually escape the patriarchal thinking and open up to an entire NEW way of being in the world. My easiest example I share is start putting women first. Instead of men and women, use women and men, sisters and brothers. think about all it is saying to our unconscious minds and bodies when men are always first. when things are always written in the "he" for both genders, etc.
Great article. I’d like to point you to Ken Wilber’s pre-post fallacy (like I always do) because there is a subtlety here that is really important.
Care to expound? Or direct me to where you already have written it? I can't guarantee I'll personally engage with deep apologetics because of my own trauma activation if we get too far in the weeds, but I'd love to hear at least some high-level points about the subtleties you think apply here. Nuance is always welcome.
I had originally expounded in the comment, then deleted that section because I didn’t want to “mansplain” if you were already familiar with it.
Basically, the pre/post fallacy is that in any form of growth, one cannot clearly perceive the next level, so tend to mistake progress for regress on the one hand, or believe yourself to have skipped a level on the other.
In terms of left and right thinking, Lawrence Kohlberg’s levels of morality are useful, where he describes pre-conventional, conventional and post-conventional forms of morality.
The conservative right, politically, has tended to be conventional. You follow the rules, you don’t question them. You do your duty etc.
The left, is often an unhealthy mix of the pre- and post-conventional. Wilber describes both being present in anti-Vietnam war rallies in the 70s.
There were those who had a pre-conventional “f you I won’t do what you tell me” mentality, who were protesting because they rejected all obligations, and those whose previous commitment to conventional morality had been strained by what they’d seen and were questioning the legitimacy of the war and its objectives, the post-conventional.
The fallacy says that the conventional, being unable to comprehend the post-conventional, mistakes it for pre-conventional, “anarchism” say, instead of the legitimate questioning that it is. This is why the right traditionally fears that the left is going to undo society.
The thing is, the right is correct about some of those on the left, since the left usually contains some pre-conventional elements (which might be reasonably be described as left-fundamentalists), among mainly post-conventional folks. And, since both may have quite similar behaviours or use of language, the pre-conventional folks can believe they are post-conventional, without having passed through the necessary “conventional” step, but don’t understand that the post-conventional folks have a different understanding and motivation to themselves.
Ironically, the recent rise of the alt-right has resulted in right-wing parties regressing to a pre-conventional morality, and thus becoming the very thing that they had always been afraid that the left was.
I hope some of this makes sense.
It’s very subtle, and Ken Wilber’s “Sex, Ecology, Spirituality” describes this much better than I have.
This is a complex set of ideas that I find very valuable to carefully follow my way through, thank you!
Excellent! Thank you for this thoughtful analysis. You’ve put to words what has been mulling around in my mind for a long time.
Bravo Tia. This article was very helpful, thank you.
It is a conundrum, but my only answer currently is “How does any position or belief reflect thought, compassion, and respectful curiosity? How does it fit into the directive to love one another?”
Thank you. After reading this I feel my brain starting to unfreeze from its post election overload of conflicting information and regain the desire to try to work through the tangled mess of grey nuance to find something solid
This is a really helpful framing and analysis of something I’ve wrestled with too. I’ve been on a similar journey, trying to spot the the old fundamentalist conditioning in myself so that I don’t get too attached to dogma-of-a-different-stripe (which is why I have the line from the Mary Oliver poem you referenced tattooed on my arm).
Also TIA -- wanted to let you know I am cross posting this piece on Jan 6th I believe it is. Wanted to support some other women as I take a break from writing to focus on my YT series that will be launching in the new year!
Wow - this was lot to sort through and make sense of. I appreciate your work on this. I woke up in 2012 to my tradwife ways...but it was way before I knew about deconstruction as it exists today. I woke up because I found a book - the Creation of patriarchy by Gerda Lerner -- that showed me WHY This shizta stuff is soooo deeply entrenched in us.
I thougth Obama was the anti-christ in 2008. In 2012 I voted for him.
However, and maybe it was becasue I was in Cali then and things are on the extreme LEFT over there, I found so much hate, anger, intolerance and more in the Left that I could not stay. I took 12 years off practicing what I called Consious Apathy before reingaging this year thanks to Project 2025 kicking me out of retirement from politics. That being said, I still had and still have much to deconstruct when it comes to politics. I just learned this Aug/Sept that Reganomics is a farse...and the facts to prove it. I felt inspired and a sense of hope as I watched Harris/Walz -- felt they were the new face of the party...one I would absolutely embrace. Yet, I still felt "dirty" voting for a Democrat and I could not pledge my allegiance to that side. Afer the election, I was disheartened when many of my YTers started to step out of the voice/tone they held in the months leading up to the eleciton and back into the voice/tone that drove me quickly away 12 years before.
I share all of this because I absolutely get what you are saying here. The fundi left is not as well centrally organized as the fundi right and therefore could most likely not present the same idealogical threat.
However, I know I am not alone in being fed up with the 2 party system...and with the debates of this is the Left, this is the Right. And I cannot help but think this piece is missing somehow from the conversaiton.
For me, and how I have trained myself to see everything from my understanding of patriarchy based on Gerda's work (which I will be diving into an ongoing series on my YT come next year) -- I think the bigger conversation to have is just that: how do we deconstruct all of patriarchy -- including the 2 party system that serves no one but the elites?
I don’t think it’s helpful to fall into the “it’s the same on both sides” as a defense - it only leads to trying to defend ourselves by comparison.
And, I find myself in some social circles being afraid to share my disagreement with, say DEI, for fear of being cancelled, as I am in other groups, to share that I don’t think that drinking alcohol is a sin.
I think the “fear of being cancelled” is quite similar to the “fear of being excommunicated”.
I am still working on the courage to overcome both fears.
Thank you for this!